How about 16mm

[jefury]

How much more expensive is it on average is 16mm compared to super 8?

Jeff

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[8th Man]

This could depend on a lot of factors, but are you talking about just film cost? Or other things that may go along with the cost of shooting like cost of cameras, making prints, etc.?
I think the cost of shooting 16mm may be more than just raw film and processing, there is also cost of convenience too.
It's more difficult to carry around a larger camera among other things.
I'm shooting a short on 16 right now and here are days I look at my Nizo and wish I could take that out instesd of the bigger cam.
A 100 ft.( less than 3 minutes) roll of 16mm neg. can be $40 retail and $15 to process. You can get returns and shortends for around $23 from certain places.
Rank is the same cost as S8.
What do you pay for S8? Seems the best price is about $11 for K40 and Less than $5 for Wal-Mart processing.

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PRM

[Scott Spears]

16mm is definitely more expensive than Super-8.

Sync Camera packages can start at around $2500 for a CP16 and go up. Eclair ACL, $3500-5000, Eclair NPR $4500-6000, Arri BL $5000-6000, Aaton LTR, $7000-9000, Arri SR I, $10,0000-and up.
Now you could go with a lesser camera like a Bolex or Bealieau R16 which is not designed for sync, basically too noisy, but you can shoot shorts with some sync sound with them if you plan carefully. I have a friend who built a homemade sound barney, a covereing for the camera which deadens the camera noise , and shot a feature with a Bolex. I recommend a Bolex with reflex viewing. They can start at around $1000.
Decent Super-8 cameras can start at $200 and up. Wrap the camera in soft cloth (I use a sweater) and throw a sound blanket over the camera and operator to kill camera noise and you have a fairly quiet camera.

Onto film stock. Count on around 28-34 cents a foot, so 100ft is around $30. Fuji can be found at about 20% cheaper than Kodak. (I really like their 125 an 250 ASA film.) Processing can be had for as cheap as .12/ft. (Crest National in LA or check out Filmcraft in Detroit at .14-ish).
Now where you can save on film stock is to get short ends. Short ends is film that was unused and sold. It is tested for resale. They can be had for .14-.20 per foot. USE A REPUTABLE DEALER, like Dr. Rawstock, Short Endz, Media Distributors, etc... If you buy from Ebay or some guy off the street, well you're taking a risk with your shoot. Also, you can talk to Kodak or Fuji about buybacks. This is film that was bought directly from them and usually sold back to them not long after it was bought. This can happen when a film project goes belly up during production and has tons of film laying around. I've bought buybacks from Fuji and saved $20 a roll which on a feature can add up to $500 or more.
This is where 16mm competes with Super-8 negative stock in price. I hate to say this because I love Super-8, but if you break down the prices on Super-8 neg and then do a short ends pricing on 16mm neg, Super-8 can be only a penny or two cheaper.
The key to short ends is to start buying way before you start shooting. It ususally takes a while to get enough short ends on 16mm to shoot a film. If you wait, you may not be able to amass enough film and be forced to buy new stuff. There's a lot more 35mm short ends out there than 16mm.
Yes, 16mm camera weight more. You have to decide if the difference in gauge is worth it.

Scott

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[Kurt]

Hello rollemfilm!

Could you tell me where I could purchase some 16mm film at the prices you mentioned. Sounds like the perfect way to test the Bolex I just recently picked up.

Thanks!

Kurt

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[jefury]

I guess I'll stick to Super 8 with the sound sync. But I'm still very interested in 16mm. I think I'll look for one of those Bolex cameras. I've always wanted to get my hands on one of those and shoot some B and H!

Thanks!

Jeff

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[rollemfilm]

john schwind sells film: http://members.aol.com/super8mm/johnschwind.html sms productions has great Bolex prices. even one or two DS8 cameras: www.smsprod.com

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[rollemfilm]

i don't understand why the john schwind link won't work. type it in and try that way. it is the correct URL...

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[avortex]

If you use Pro8mm stocks, the price could be the same than shooting 16mm.

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[rollemfilm]

it all depends on where you're at with your filmmaking. if you look at prices for used Bolex cameras you soon see that you can get into a great package for between $350-$1,500.00. now these are not sync cameras. and, you can shoot b&w film. this will bring down your cost also. you can buy Ilford b&w 100ft negative for $15.00. you can also get Foma reversal for $15.00. Super Cine-X for $9.00!! and Svema, yes for $7.00 per 100ft!!! so compare these prices with super8. if your not ready for sync sound, if you like b&w filmmaking, and you like the great Bolex cameras, you can spend "less" on 16mm...plus have more options as far as film stocks. but, if you are looking at doing some sync sound work cheap, super8 will be better to start with.

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[Matt Pacini]

Pro8mm stock IS the same price as 16mm neg.

I got a Canon Scoopic M 16mm camera in very good condition for $331.00 on ebay.

The quick answer about stock, from my deductions, is new 16mm stock & processing is around 3 times what Super 8 K-40 & processing costs ($11.00 a roll from Kodak, $5.59 for PK-59 processing mailers from B&H in N.Y.).

I've seen specials on 16mm short ends on Dr. Rawstock or Shortenz ( forget which one) for .10 a foot, which is even CHEAPER than Super 8 stock. (This doesn't include processing, obviously, which is more).

Not counting what the camera costs are (which obviously vary greatly), and film stock & processing, shooting 16mm doesn't inherently mean more expense.
I mean, you don't HAVE to use more light, more professional light, etc., just because you're shooting 16mm, but most people do.
There are pro's & cons both ways, but you can't beat a bigger image, any way you go.
I'm looking forward to shooting lots of 16mm, & still shooting Super 8 for small cheap projects.

Basically, this is going to be my formula for what I shoot in the near future:

1. I'm paying for everything = Super 8.
2. Someone else is paying = 16mm, S16, 35mm.

I think it's that simple...

Matt Pacini

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